Hulver's site || Favorite programming fad?

Favorite programming fad?

lean	0 votes - 0 %
agile	0 votes - 0 %
xp	0 votes - 0 %
paired programming	3 votes - 18 %
scrum	1 vote - 6 %
IDEs	0 votes - 0 %
goto	3 votes - 18 %
self programming computers	0 votes - 0 %
object oriented	0 votes - 0 %
reality TV	0 votes - 0 %
unnumbered lines	6 votes - 37 %
goto	0 votes - 0 %
the ponderously slow language not the refreshing beverage	3 votes - 18 %
WIPO	0 votes - 0 %
offshoring	0 votes - 0 %

16 Total Votes

I am weak | 54 comments (54 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback

My doctors office by Bob Abooey (2.00 / 0) #1 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:06:13 PM EST

Has a cafeteria on the main floor - one could go down there and buy some latte whilst waiting to be seen by the good doctor, although I'm guessing it would show up as fd srvc or some such thing on the billing line.

Maybe you should send the lovely Mrs. Ha to military school. That'll straighten her right out.

As a side note - am I the only one who is annoyed by the fact that my posting prefs are now static whereas they used to be dynamic? I have to keep switching back and forth from Auto Format to HTML.

Warmest regards,
--Your best pal Bob

How's my blogging: Call me at 209.867.5309 to complain.

I think she's passed the age of acceptance by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #3 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:30:11 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Well by Bob Abooey (2.00 / 0) #5 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:42:19 PM EST

There's always the French Foreign Legion. I think they'll take just about anyone but that may require that you relocate overseas. But frankly I think that may work out for you given your propensity to drive little cars and ride motorized bicycles and whatnot.

Warmest regards,
--Your best pal Bob

How's my blogging: Call me at 209.867.5309 to complain.
[ Parent ]

Do you think they'd take me? by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #10 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:57:50 PM EST

What with being old and being in poor health. I do have the German name, I know they like their Nazis.

[ Parent ]

Sure by Bob Abooey (2.00 / 0) #12 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 02:03:45 PM EST

Or no, wait, upon further review it looks like neither one of you can go.

Warmest regards,
--Your best pal Bob

How's my blogging: Call me at 209.867.5309 to complain.
[ Parent ]

What a hoot! by Bob Abooey (2.00 / 0) #13 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 02:08:52 PM EST

The Legion may not be all it's cracked up to be:

Theft is rampant within the ranks of the Legion. The Legion invariably attracts those of dubious character so you will eventually encounter this problem. Since you are paid large sums of money in cash, it can be difficult to protect it from opportunity seekers when your guard is down

Warmest regards,
--Your best pal Bob

How's my blogging: Call me at 209.867.5309 to complain.
[ Parent ]

ce las vie by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #14 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 02:14:48 PM EST

what are the age requirements for Blackwater?

[ Parent ]

My brain hurts trying to read that by Driusan (2.00 / 0) #26 Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 02:39:00 PM EST

Even I know that should be spelted "c'est la vie."

Câlisse.

[ Parent ]

Hey, I'm American by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #27 Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 02:45:02 PM EST

our official second language is Spanish, comprende?

[ Parent ]

: Non. by Driusan (2.00 / 0) #28 Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 02:52:30 PM EST

[ Parent ]

42 by Horatio Hellpop (2.00 / 0) #33 Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 05:11:15 PM EST

They're in the phone book and they'll make house calls.

"You can't really know something until you ruin it for everyone." -some guy who used to have an account here
[ Parent ]

I had to vote my wallet by barooo (2.00 / 0) #2 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:11:17 PM EST

the ponderously slow language pays my bills. The more I use it though, the more I hate it. But languages are like that. I think the nicest environment I've been exposed to is cocoa/objC on NeXT^H^H^H^HMac OS X. But there's no future in that :)

Oh I don't know by Bob Abooey (2.00 / 0) #4 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:39:30 PM EST

The more I used C the more I liked it. I'm likely the one guy in that regard though.

I always hated the ponderously slow language. It's carpel tunnel just waiting to happen.

Warmest regards,
--Your best pal Bob

How's my blogging: Call me at 209.867.5309 to complain.
[ Parent ]

: Hmmmm by barooo (2.00 / 0) #23 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 05:33:59 PM EST

I like C. I like Java itself, but the J2EE/Servlet/JDBC/etc. environment is hostile. C with nice libraries is pleasant, as is Java.
The only thing about the language itself that really that bugs me is having to cast all the time when dealing with collections and algorithms. I like templates. I realize that modern java has generics, but we, like many companies, are still on 1.4 in production and probably will be until at least 2012 or so...

[ Parent ]

I see a lot of votes for unnumbered lines by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #6 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:43:30 PM EST

which shook my world once I was exposed to something besides Basic.

[ Parent ]

programming fad WIPO: by webwench (4.00 / 1) #7 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:49:48 PM EST

offshoring.

^{Getting more attention than you since 1998.}

Fad?? by Bob Abooey (2.00 / 0) #9 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:55:15 PM EST

~not really a fad is it~

Warmest regards,
--Your best pal Bob

How's my blogging: Call me at 209.867.5309 to complain.
[ Parent ]

thinking that it is successful sure is by discordia (2.00 / 0) #24 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 05:41:47 PM EST

[ Parent ]

Offshoring is successful by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #30 Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 03:51:24 PM EST

Thinking that it works to produce quality code is the fad.

[ Parent ]

depends on whether producing quality code by discordia (2.00 / 0) #35 Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 10:17:41 PM EST

is a success metric or not

[ Parent ]

Offshore is about saving money by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #46 Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 08:10:28 PM EST

It doesn't have anything to do with quality code. So offshore is successful. It saves money in the short term, and by the time the long term kicks in the CIO is gone and all the employees are already on the street.

[ Parent ]

if we want to confine the discussion by discordia (2.00 / 0) #48 Wed Nov 07, 2007 at 12:43:32 AM EST

to your success metrics, thats one thing

and I'm not arguing that those metrics aren't what idiots in business use; far from it.

no, I'm arguing from a mid-to-long term sustainability perspective. Offshoring is a failure.

[ Parent ]

I don't disagree by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #49 Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 07:50:04 PM EST

That's why I say it's a success, but it doesn't work. It's a success by serving it's purpose. It doesn't work even though it is successful.

[ Parent ]

wait, what? by discordia (2.00 / 0) #50 Fri Nov 09, 2007 at 08:38:10 PM EST

you can have something that is successful, but doesn't work?

this is Microsoft-style thinking, unless I'm mistaken

[ Parent ]

Nope, it's American business thinking by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #51 Sat Nov 10, 2007 at 11:22:46 AM EST

It depends on how you define success. And every time I've seen offshoring discussed it's about reducing cost. There's no focus on producing code that is maintainable long term. It's always purely functional to meet a long term goal. Which is why it can be successful and not actually work. The definition of "work" here is usually maintainable long term.

It reminds me of the definition of quality. Most people think quality is an intrinsic value, but the official project management definition is meeting or exceeding the expectation of the customer.

[ Parent ]

which takes me back to my previous point by discordia (2.00 / 0) #52 Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 01:45:55 PM EST

http://www.hulver.com/scoop/comments/2007/11/2/125159/715/48#48

I don't like to restrict myself to those metrics.

[ Parent ]

Not my measure by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #53 Tue Nov 13, 2007 at 07:32:02 PM EST

It's the measure of those doing the offshoring. You have to use their metrics because they're the ones who decide if they meet their goals.

[ Parent ]

: I don't think I have to use their metrics at all by discordia (2.00 / 0) #54 Wed Nov 14, 2007 at 12:32:48 PM EST

and I think an important part of the debate is the validity of the metrics used to measure success.

[ Parent ]

That's not just limited to programming though by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #11 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 02:00:49 PM EST

but I added it, so you wouldn't have to abuse your superpowers.

[ Parent ]

As a corollary to wenchy's comment, by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #8 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 01:53:21 PM EST

Paired Programming with one programmer onshore and one offshore. And yes, I've lived that dream.

Did he have good parenting advice? by georgeha (4.00 / 1) #15 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 02:25:41 PM EST

[ Parent ]

: Yes! And it was all base on his by greyrat (2.00 / 0) #16 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 02:31:17 PM EST

childhood experiences, since he was too busy working 18 hours a day to have a family of his own. =;^)

[ Parent ]

Need multi-select: by miker2 (2.00 / 0) #17 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 03:20:22 PM EST

Here at $GERMAN_CO, we use:

Lean
Agile
eXtreme Programming
Scrum
IDE's (Eclipse)
OO
Java
Offshoring

And I LOVE it. Really. After 18 months of doing this I'm honestly curious as to how other companies deliver software without following some sort of iterative scrum-like approach with true continuous integration (we integrate close to 1MLOC multiple times/day).

The only part that remotely sucks is the offshoring, but that only sucks when you need to speak to someone in India/Europe and it's 5PM East coast time. We've worked around most of those issues by having those teams work on modules with few integration points.

Ah, sociopathy. How warm, how comforting, thy sweet embrace. - MNS

Do any professional developers not use an IDE? by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #18 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 03:34:58 PM EST

I reckon that was kind of a given.

[ Parent ]

: You'd be surprised. by miker2 (2.00 / 0) #20 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 03:52:50 PM EST

No one on this project. I've had the displeasure of working with 'developer' who though note/word pad were great 'coding' tools. I've also seen folks who prefer to edit write in clearcase, using the default text edit to save then check in right on the server.
Ah, sociopathy. How warm, how comforting, thy sweet embrace. - MNS
[ Parent ]
: If "vi" is an IDE by dmg (4.00 / 1) #25 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 07:15:57 PM EST

Then no.

--
Hard work is morally wrong.
[ Parent ]
: i use vi or vim. by aphrael (2.00 / 0) #29 Sat Nov 03, 2007 at 11:47:33 PM EST

i'll use vc++ to debug, but if i'm just writing code, i have no need for an ide.

If television is a babysitter, the internet is a drunk librarian who won't shut up.
[ Parent ]

goto by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #19 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 03:48:08 PM EST

How do you roast beans that the smoke detector goes off? I roast green beans without smoke.
1 LB beans, with a light coat of olive oil
Spread in a jelly roll pan.
Roast at 450°F for 10 minutes.
Remove pan, stir the beans, roast for 10 minutes more.
Enjoy the yumminess.

I had no trouble finding a compatible AA group when I moved. They're not that different from place to place.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}

I have yet to try the oven by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #21 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 03:55:24 PM EST

I do them on the stove top in a cast iron skillet. How much control do you have over the roast, I nearly always end up at Full City or darker.

[ Parent ]

That's why I stir at 10 minutes by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #22 Fri Nov 02, 2007 at 04:21:40 PM EST

They should be about half done. Some browning, but not burnt. Stir them to even out the cooking.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

You must have a better oven by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #37 Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 07:14:00 AM EST

I still got the smoke alarm going off. The beans taste good, though.

[ Parent ]

Try a lower temperature by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #38 Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 08:38:12 AM EST

Maybe get the oven calibrated.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

: It took about 25 minutes, too by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #39 Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 09:10:24 AM EST

[ Parent ]

wait... by barooo (2.00 / 0) #40 Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 10:39:40 AM EST

What kind of beans are you talking about?

[ Parent ]

I'm talking coffee by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #41 Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 02:44:52 PM EST

I don't know what wiredog is talking about, I assumed coffee.

[ Parent ]

Green beans by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #43 Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 07:32:37 AM EST

Not coffee.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

dayum, what kind of psychoactive affects by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #44 Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 08:45:05 AM EST

do you get from the legume type green beans?

[ Parent ]

: Well, when roasted by wiredog (2.00 / 0) #45 Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 09:58:15 AM EST

they're very yummy, and some women regard them as an aphrodisiac.

Earth First!
_{(We can strip mine the rest later.)}
[ Parent ]

Scrum? by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #31 Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 03:54:23 PM EST

Yes, project management for companies that don't want to pay for project management, but want to claim to have it. Works well with offshoring to completely fuck up a companies systems in a way that only a true blue dipshit CIO could appreciate. Ooo, we have documentation that means nothing to support the system that doesn't work. And it was all done cheaply.

Yeah, that's a rugby term by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #32 Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 04:26:10 PM EST

most of our developers are onsite or in El Segundo, but we have outsourced some testing to Hooters in India. We also have lots of managers, line managers, program managers, managers out the ying yang.

[ Parent ]

Testing the waters then by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #34 Sun Nov 04, 2007 at 09:21:19 PM EST

Start with testing and work your way into other areas. One of the concerns with outsourcing is that you don't want to go after the people who actually run the place too soon. You don't want them getting scarred and screwing you over by quitting before you have a chance to screw them by firing them. It's pretty standard stuff.

[ Parent ]

I hope not by georgeha (2.00 / 0) #36 Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 07:11:34 AM EST

we haven't heard much good about the testing, and we did move some PCL development back. There are some major benefits with being colocated with the engineers developing the printers, too.

[ Parent ]

: Well by jimgon (2.00 / 0) #47 Tue Nov 06, 2007 at 08:12:51 PM EST

I hope it's not the case, but I've seen it be the case more often than I care to remember.

[ Parent ]

late to the party.. by ObviousTroll (2.00 / 0) #42 Mon Nov 05, 2007 at 04:32:36 PM EST

But I find working in teams is a tremendous boost to my productivity; two guys in tandem on a dumpster dive are much more effective than one guy.

The other thing I'm a big fan of is the thing that all programmers loathe: strict, on-going, code reviews. I worked on a big (50+ million LOC) project that had absolutely horrendous quality issues. We went to a policy of "no one commits to CVS until it'
s been approved by the peer review board". Membership in the PRB rotated weekly, no one got to lord it over their co-workers for more than one week, then it was their turn in barrel for 7 or 8 more.

When we first instituted the policy it took me months to get changes through, because people kept complaining about holes and side-effects. 2 years later, it was my turn to be the grinch who was constantly pointing out side effects and unintended consequences in other people's code, and the number of outstanding bugs dropped by 90%.

--
Has anybody seen my clue? I know I had it when I came in here.

I am weak | 54 comments (54 topical, 0 hidden) | Trackback


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